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America 11, Us 10, Maury Davis 10, Larry Lawton 6, Tommy Chong 6, Texas 5, Dallas 5, Huckabee 3, Bong 3, Pennsylvania 3, Geico 2, Mike Huckabee.com 2, Jesus Christ 2, Mike 2, Mike Huckabee 2, New York City 2, California 2, Maury 2, Advil 2, Charmin Softness 1,
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  FOX News    Huckabee    News/Business.  

    August 8, 2010
    8:00 - 9:00pm EDT  

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patch. captioned by closed captioning services, inc >> announcer: ladies and gentlemen, governor is >> ladies and gentlemen, governor mike huckabee. >> thank you, thank you very much, everybody and welcome to huckabee from the fox news studios in new york city. well, tonight, men who have spent time in prison, but they're now out and have rebuilt their lives and how they hope to use their experiences to keep others from time behind bars. maury davis one of our guests, once savagely killed a woman and now he preaches to a congregation of thousands. tommy chong is famous for glorifying marijuana in the cheech and chong movies and his battle with the marijuana laws are a part of his life we'll talk about and larry lawton, a mobster who stole millions of dollars in jewelry and now is
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trying to guide the youngsters down the right path. their amazing and riveting stories on this edition of huckabee. thank you for joining us. [applaus [applause]. >> our director used to say something that i've often quoted. we lock a lot of people up that are we're mad at. not the ones we're really afraid of and unfortunately, that is the truth. we put a lot of people in prison. look, i understand, crime should be punished. but is the ultimate goal to punish the criminal or is it to protect society? is it to get revenge or is it to bring restoration to all who are involved? both the victims as well as those who commit the crimes? now, the victims in crime understandably probably aren't in for a lot of discussion about second chances, but there has to be some discussion here. is there redemption for people or is there not is there an opportunity to find a way to
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give people a pathway back to life if they can meet the rules of society? and the question is, will there be consistency? i don't think we want ridiculous leniency. but do we want a system that has no second chances? and if we do, do we want to apply that to everything like speeding, tax mistakes or maybe your child being caught with drugs or alcohol? i talk to a lot of people that they tell me that they believe in the death penalty, but i'm going to tell you, it's one thing in the abstract, it's another thing if you ever deal with it in reality. i did as a governor. more than any governor in my state's history i had to carry it out and i know that when people talk about what they would do, well, i can assure you, they've never done it and they never will do it. it's one thing to talk about it, it's another thing to have to actually deal with the real consequences of crime and justice. there are three things i think we can assume. one is there are no perfect
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people. number two, there are no perfect answers to this. and the third thing is that justice is supposed to be blind, but it's not supposed to be stupid. the human element requires thoughtful decisions and to be honest with you, sometimes those decisions will be wrong. ours is not a great system, but it is what we have. the essence of it is its strength that we are innocent until we are proven guilty by a jury of our peers. sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, but it is our system. [applaus [applause] >> that's my view and i welcome yours. you can send your comments to me at mike huckabee.com and click on the fox news fedback section at mike huckabee.com. my first guest was 18 when he brutally murdered a 54-year-old woman. he could have gone to the electric chair instead spent eight and a half years in a texas prison where he lost his own life and found the lord.
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now he's helping others find redemption, please welcome pastor maury davis. maury, great to have you here. >> an honor to be here. [applause] >> you were a teenager, you got involved in drugs and that led to some pretty crazy stuff. what happened? >> well at about 13 years of age i began to run by the wrong crowd. involved in marijuana and drugs and in high school i wouldn't graduate and i told nigh stepfather, would he he send me to a military academy. i went to new mexico and returned to dallas discovered if there's no change on the inside. environmental control doesn't change internal control and got right back into the old life style and moved beyond just to the martin man and hallucinog hallucinogenic drugs and to speed before it was called meth amphetamines.
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and before january of 1975, had become strung out and messed up. >> you ended up committing a heinous crime. >> yes, sir. >> i want you to tell me about what happened, what did you do, how did that come about? the day before i committed the crime, my natural father came to the house and the trucking company working, and my dad left my mother and father when i was a little boy-- my mother when i was a little boy. he got frustrated and said i want to talk to you about god and i told him something that day, i never would tell my dad. i want you to tell something about your son you don't know, i don't believe there is a god. i remember thinking if there was a god he'd do better than a daddy that left us, and drunk all of our lives and my dad stood up a great big cajun man, and started to cry, i know i'm not the christian man i should
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be, but there is a god and god will get your attention and put new a place to get your attention. >> he did. >> 24 hours later in the middle of a burglary, i committed a horrible murder and 24 hours after that arrested irving city police in a suburb of dallas and charged with the crime of first degree murder. >> why did you kill the lady, robbing her house? >> there was-- i was so, when you're on meth, when you have not slept, you become emotionally unstable. and you know, i waist raised in texas with texas values you never hit a woman and you know, there was a problem there. she had spilled some paint on some boots and i had hit her and the moment i hit her i was afraid that somebody was going to find out i hit a woman and escalated from there. >> the murder was not a simple-- it was savage. >> yes, sir. >> what exactly did you do? how did-- what happened that day that took this woman's life. >> you know, mike, i honestly
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don't remember the details of that and i've talked to my attorney and to the psychiatrist that worked with me and your mind shuts down things that horrible. horrendous. >> and you read about it and know-- >> i've read about it and some of the stuff i've read according to the police reports are not true, some of the stuff they write in papers and stuff. >> some of it is. >> it was a horrible, a brutal murder. >> when this then happened, you were arrested. the police said you know, you're going to go on trial for murder. what, what did you anticipate sentencing would be? >> oh, well, i'm in texas. >> i was going to say, they carry out more death sentences than any other state by far. >> now, the-- because i did not actually commit a burglary, it moved from being a death penalty case which is a murder in the process of another crime to a first degree murder case. >> it would have been capital murder at that point. >> yes, sir. >> and it moved to where it was life in prison which is what my attorney and everybody else thought it would be. they thought i would get the
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max. >> why didn't you? >> you know, national tv this is not going to play real good on your show. i had given my life to jesus christ, my pastor is here in the audience today along with my family and god had delivered me from the demon of murder. >> this is between the time of the murder and the arrest and the time of trial. >> yes, sir. >> so at my trial, my attorney used as a defense, demon possession and you can just play that out in the media, you now how that played, but one of the members of my jury, my jury foreman, a gentleman by the name of don mcdonnell had been a police officer or highway patrolman in california and had dealt with that spirit in his life and had been delivered and given his life to jesus christ and when all the other jury members want today give me life he couldn't do it he said i can't give truth without grace. >> you had also been told by a criminal psychologist that you had one of the worst criminal profiles he'd ever seen. >> dr. griggson, who was the--
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they called him dr. death there in dallas, if he evaluated you wasn't going to be a good report, but tell me he gave me the worst psychological report of any inmate in all of dallas, texas. >> the worst, prior to 1975. >> a lot of people come out of dallas texas. >> yes, sir. >> when we come back, maury davis, how did he get a second chance and why? what does it mean for the rest of us? we'll be right back. the grand canyon twice as fast. uh-oh. we get double mis every time we use r card. i'll te these. no matter what we're buying. plus the damages. and since double miles add up quick, we can bring thehole gang. it's hard to beat double miles. no we ride them! [ me announcer ] introducing the venture card from capital one, with le miles on evy purchase every day. go to capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? oh, that's the spot!
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local kids. for information on how to help, visit childrensmiraclenetwork.org. you have (applause). >> mike: we're back with pastor maury davis. when we were visiting we talked about the amazing journey between this drug crazed kid who commits a murder and a guy who is now a pastor with a stable, wonderful family. i've been in your church, in your home and seen your family. en it's like leave it to beaver. it's a big jump. how did you come to know price? what was the change in your life? what brought to you that point? >> i'd never been raised in church and there were a number of things that happened. one of them my attorney kept pushing me to pray and he had
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been, become a born again christian a few months prior to my family hiring them. >> mike: he was probably afraid of you. >> no, he was more of a heathen, he was an attorney. >> mike: enough said. >> i shouldn't have said that. >> mike: no, you should have. >> the pastor that led him to the lord asked could you meet this young man and had me say a prayer and i didn't believe there was a god. my first prayer was god if you're up there and you come down and prove yourself to me i will serve you the rest of my life. >> mike: we have the pastor instrumental to bringing you to the lord. he's in the front row. i have known don george 35 years, pastor george, when you first met maury davis, he looked a lot different because i've seen pictures and it's unrecognizable. did you think this guy was going to one day pastor a large church in america? >> well, i had no clue that that would happen, governor huckabee,
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because when i walked into the jail that day at the request of his attorney and his mother, i looked into the face, of a bleary eyed spaced out speed freak who showed little or no remorse and manifested no guilt whatsoever for the crime that he had committed, but it was there in the dallas county jail during the earliest days of his incarceration that he had an encounter with god and it dramatically changed his life. simultaneously, he was called to preach the gospel, and i had the privilege of mentoring and training maury davis for ministry during his long prison years, 8 1/2 years, he came out of prison and took a position on the, on the staff of the church i i pastor as a janitor and i tell you, mike, i've never had a finer janitor than maury days, can cleaned the carpet, took out the trash and did everything that a janitor is supposed to be
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and quickly became an administrative assistant and the supervisor of janitors and cut right to the chase, you said it well, he pass stores one of the great churches in america today and preaches every sunday to thousands of people. >> you employed him at the church and he actually became a youth minister and i've got to ask both of you to tell me this, were there parents who said, are you crazy? you're going to let this guy mo is a convicted murderer oversee the youth activities of my kids? >> i'll never forget the circumstance that brought maury into the youth pastorship of cavalry. i had a group of parents meeting me and they were disillusioned with the current youth pastor and more out of exaspiration than anything. you want a new youth pastor, what do you think of maury davis. >> he was off the janitorial staff and my personal administrative assistant and to my astonishment they said we would love to have maury davis as the youth pastor of our kids.
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>> mike: were you as shocked as i were hearing that story to be the youth minister? i'm thinking the families of most churches would come to the pastor and say if this guy is a minister not only do we leave, but we take something out with you and do something, too. >> god had already done so many miracles in my life it was another miracle, we were able to reach dallas and fort worth. in the city. i can't fix what i did, but what i can do is commit myself to investing myself and helping other people not do the same thing or go down the same road and one of of my gifts back to the great nation is working with young people in america and that was a gift and those families gave me the opportunity to pastor their children which you and i both know is a miracle in this society. another one of the miracles, god is a miracle working god. >> a lot of people are going to be cynical, got to be like a jail house religion, a pathway out of trouble. >> jail house religion only
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lasts until you're out of jame. i've been out of jail for 30 years. >> there has to be a time. gosh, i wish if anything i could go back and undo the damages and what about the family of the victim? >> you know, the obviously, the guilt and the shame. people that don't understand what they've done, they minimize the guilt and shame that ought to go with it and that is a constant companion to my life. i have offered to the family a couple of times if they ever want to talk to me and they have wanted to do that. just last year i was in contact with a grandson of the woman that i killed as well as a friend of her son. and at this time they're still not ready to talk and i don't want to push it, don't ever want to inflict any more pain on that family than i've done and so, now, my gift to god for saving me and for all the other people i've hurt is to spend my life trying to help other people and give every person hope there's a god of a second chance. i was opening the senate the other day or the senate legislature in the state of tennessee i've done over year
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for 15 years, and a man asked me what qualifies you to be here? there are people because of my past are never going to let me forget there's an x on my back. >> mike: sure. >> and i said the bible says god chose the base thing, to nullify the things that are, that no man should post before god. no thing in life can i ever touch the glory of. >> your story tells me is that if a person like you can find a changed life, i mean, a completely transformed life, then it's possible for anybody. the worst police report, savage murder, sentenced to prison, hopeless, didn't believe in god. and for over 30 years you've been now leading people in a spiritual direction and for 20 years pastor, one of the fastest growing most dynamic churches in america. it's a story of hope and a story of redemption. >> you know, god took me and saved me when i was unsafable because he loved me when i was
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unlovable. he gave me the word of god to change my mind, to fix the very thing the psychiatrists couldn't say was fixable. filled me with his spirit which gave me the conscience i'd lost through drugs. i'm sitting here with you today. you're a presidential candidate, a talk show host for fox, influencer in america and you recognize that my life is the poster life or one of the the poster lives, don't give up on a human beings. we don't want to write our children off. my children are in the audience today. there is nothing i could do i would want you to give them a second chance. i don't want you you to let them out earlier. my stepdad did something so noble, he could have made my bond and got me out of jail, but he didn't do it because there's something wrong with me. there has to be a correction and a penalty, but we live in a land that was built on christian principles and we lose the heart
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of christianity, faith, hope and love, that jesus christ died for sinners, when we lose that, we will have lost the soul of this nation, that's when this nation will be in trouble. maury, it's a powerful story and i want to thank you so much for the candor and sharing with us. thank you very, very much. maury davis. we will be back in a few moments. tommy chong you know him as one of the partners of cheech and chong. he, too, went to prison. we'll find out why and what he learned interest when we come back. oóo@/áuuuuutupué]t+pu]ou [ male announcer ] the financial headlines
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[ applause ] >> mike: comedic >> (applause) >> the partnership of cheech marin and "stoners."
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spot smokers. >> hey, man, is my driving okay? >> i think we're parked, man. >> mike: and then he was convicted of being involved in a drug paraphernalia business and spent nine months in federal prison. he has no regrets and still doesn't think he did anything wrong. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome tommy chong. great to have you here. >> good to be here. >> mike: i mind myself guilty to find i'm laughing at you and cheech breaking the law in the old movies threw were as a lot of funny reteens and certainly your comedy revolved around the marijuana and harmless, but happy-go-lucky guys. >> yeah. but it got serious for you a few years ago when the federal agents came to your house and raided your house. what happened? >> they were looking for bongs.
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i didn't know what they were looking for at that time. my son and i had a bong business, a glass business. >> mike: explain bongs for those of us uninitiated who don't know anything about it whatsoever. >> bong, a bong is a vietnam word for water pipe. that's all it is, a water pipe or an hoka pipe. you know, but we were licensed by the state of california, the business was totally legitimate and we were shipping bongs to different parts of the united states and there were-- there was one state that we weren't allowed to ship to, which was pennsylvania. so, pennsylvania, the d.e.a., they want today bust me because i'm a high profile actor. >> mike: were you a trophy on the wall. no doubt about it that. >> i was. so they set up this phony head shop and they tried-- there's a documentary out called "aka tommy chong" shows the feds
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trying to entrap me into sending the bongs to them in pennsylvania. we wouldn't do it. so, what they did, they put an undercover agent in my shop, my son's shop and then they had that agent send the bongs to them. and that justified breaking the law and then they came and raided my house february 23rd, five o'clock in the morning. >> mike: and what year was this? >> '03. >> mike: '03, they didn't say mr. chong, you have to come with us, this was a whole-- >> the s.w.a.t. team. it's weird because my door is always open, i never lock it and it's-- >> glad you told america that, that's a good idea, but. >> i don't care, you know, you want to steal it-- >> you really are that person. >> i live in a very exclusive neighborhood, you know, so we're protected. >> mike: yeah.
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>> and so i saw-- i went downstairs in my little jockey shorts and i looked out and saw these guys milling around and at first they looked like trick-or-treaters, you know, with the masks and the guns, now, looked like little kids dressed up for halloween and i looked closer and they're cops. and i thought, well, maybe somebody had escaped and they're going from door-to-door, you know, i had all of these things go through my head and so i opened the door and they combusting in and they wouldn't tell me why they were busting me. i asked them and they said we'll tell you soon enough they went through the house and started taking computers out of my house and then-- >> this is incredibly frightening. >> my wife came downstairs, what's going on. i was kind of laughing, it was weird. i don't know, it looks like they're doing a movie. and it felt like a movie. and then the head guy, no, it's not a movie.
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you know. oh, okay. what is it? he says we'll tell you soon enough. >> mike: so they ended up charging you with what, drug paraphernalia, not drug use paraphernalia. >> what it was, they found pot in my house, big deal, tommy chong, you know. and then the local cops were there, but the local cops looked at the pot and walked out wouldn't have anything to do with it. so, we got talking and find out what they wanted. they wanted to bust me. found out i didn't own the company so legally they had nothing to charge me with, but then they told me through my lawyer that if i didn't plead guilty, they would go after my son and they would go after my wife. and this is a united states government telling you that. >> mike: so you had to make a choice. >> i made a choice. >> mike: you pled guilty. >> i pled guilty and they also hinted that, if everything was okay i wouldn't do time.
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house arrest. no one has ever done time for bongs so i said okay, so i pled guilty and then, and then i did community work, you know, tried to-- you know, kind of cool about it. >> mike: they wanted you in prison? >> they wanted me. and the indictment read that i made, when i went for sentencing, the indictment, they read-- . the indictment read that i had made millions of dollars doing movies about marijuana and making fun of law enforcement agencies. that was part of the charge. >> mike: that's not a crime to make fun. i thought-- look, tommy, awen i don't agree on the idea of using marijuana just so you know, i think that's probably not a big surprise to you. >> didn't say that when we were smoking it back stage. >> mike: that wasn't me, you were so stoned you didn't know that was someone else. it was not me. we definitely are going to take a break right now. i promise you that. and when would he come back i might have tommy chong back with
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me, i think i will. he'll be back and we'll talk about why and why he's here today. we'll be right back.
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>> this is america's news headquarters, hello i'm julie banderas. secretary of state clinton calling the killing of medical aid workers in afghanistan a despicable act of violence.
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six victims were americans and the taliban is claiming responsibility and say the workers from the international assistance mission were spying and preaching christianity. pressure tests on a cement plug ceiling the oil well is solid. bp engineers can drill the final 100 feet of a relief well. no word if the drilling has started. the work expected to be slow. crews say it will probably be next weekend before the two wells are joined. mud and cement will then be pumped into the well to permanently seal it shut. go to website for the latest headlines. headlines. >> we're back with tommy chong and i have him settled down and the not make any more references that i might have been doing something illegal. that was a joke. >> mike: yeah. >> no, really. >> mike: it really is. seriously, you and i don't agree on the idea you think we should
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legalize marijuana. i'm not sure that that's a good idea, but-- >> well, you know, you're in a position where it'd be very tough. >> mike: it'd be really hard. >> to justify it, you'd have to change everything, but if you look at a lot of attorney generals and surgeon generals, a lot of, anybody that's been you know, in the drug war and then retired, they come up for legalization. >> the one thing though i think we would find common ground, tommy, is that the incarceration of nonviolent offenders, i'm speaking now from a standpoint of a governor who watched our prisons fill up with nonviolent drug offenders and who led our state to do things like drug courts, community sentencing because it didn't make sense to incarcerate people, they only got worse not better. >> you're incarcerating farmers, people that grow pot, they are he' farmers. i don't know that i would hardly say that that's the same as people who grow corn or wheat.
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>> in kansas in the 30's they grew hemp, hemp. and now that people have lost their farms because they found hemp growing on their property. >> mike: but when you were in prison you were there, frankly, let's say, to make a statement. >> yeah. >> mike: i think that's something we would accept as reality, that the feds said if we get tommy chong it's going to send a strong message that we're serious about the drug stuff. what was prison like for you? because i mean, you must have been in as somewhat of icon and even a hero to some of the other inmates. >> well, to be honest, i didn't want to go to prison. >> i can understand that. >> i did not want to go to prison. i did everything i could to stay out of prison. i even wrote a speech blaming everything on cheech (laughter) >> that's probably why you went to prison. >> or blaming everything on pot and saying, using cheech has an example of why you know, i did all this. and i tried everything. because i was scared to go to prison.
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when i finally had to go, i had to suck it up and i walked in and they put handcuffs on me and the only time they ever did, i was handcuffed and i was led through-- it was, what do you call it. >> mike: perp walk? >> it wasn't a perp walk, it was like just, just to show that i'm a prisoner. >> mike: okay. >> because-- >> the humiliation. >> yeah, the humiliation and the first night was the toughest night when i heard that-- i went from sleeping in a beautiful bed with a beautiful woman to all of a sudden i'm in a little bunk with no covers hardly, little cover, a cement wall as my, my bed partner and 250 men snoring and making all sorts of man noises and it was like in a zoo and then i heard the door lock, it was a dormitory and i heard that door lock and i broke out into a sweat and it was a--
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the worst half hour the whole time i was there. >> mike: did it make you bitter to be in prison? >> no, because what happened, i was raised very, you know, christian like, you know, i went to bible camp when i was a kid. i, i always used-- i always had my escape, you know? and so what i did, i just meditated and i just felt the spirit come into me and when i felt the spirit come into me, it was like everything was going to be okay. and everything was okay. >> what is your message to america today? if you could just say to all of the lawmakers and to the officials, would you have a message that you would say, look, this is what i learned, this is what i wish you would listen to? >> well, america historically
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uses fear to control the population and like even when they have spiritual leaders on television, they never have like just one. they have like, like larry king will have ten of them on and then they don't, they don't really get to talk. you know? it's almost, the-- america has pushed away from the spiritual leanings which really created this country. like even on the money it says in god we trust, and this is the theme, money that these oil people and that are just trying to get everything they can, but they don't read what's on there. you see, everything that's given to us, is given to us by the spirit. and they don't realize that. and so my message, like, for instance, health care, you know, all of the things about health care, you know, when i was in prison, they did three open heart surgeries on prisoners they couldn't get on the
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outside. but they commit had a crime and then they get into the federal system. they have a heart problem, they get health care so there is three open heart surgeries when i was there and the cost of keeping prisoners, warehousing them and then not really getting them ready for the outside, you know, this is the-- it turned back into a punitive state where they punish people you know, and the word penitentiary means penance, when you-- >> it's supposed to be a correction system not a punishment. >> that's right, that's right. >> mike: well, you got out and it's a good thing. thank you for coming on on talking to me today and by the way there are d.e.a. agents outside the door. >> they're the guys, watch out for them. they're the real criminals, no, thank you, mike. >> mike: tommy, thank you for being here. tommy chong (applause) >> when we come back, larry
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lawton's reality check. he'll talk about what he did and what he's doing now different from stealing jewelry. [applause].
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>> mike: he was a high . he was a high dollar jewel thief that spent 11 years of hard time. in some of the toughest prisons in the country. since he's been out he started the reality check program to help guide teens and help them from making the same mistakes that he made. joining us now is larry lawton. hey, larry. >> thanks for having me on. >> it's my pleasure. >> you guys started hanging out with the mob in brooklyn new york, how in the world do you just get a job with the mob? i've never understood that. is there an application or something? >> no, there's no application, actually i was 12 years old. i was doing football-- >> 12? >> i started doing football tickets in my neighborhood in
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the bronx. >> when you say doing football tickets. what do you mean. >> the gambling ticket. you pick four teams and if you win, you put a dollar down and you get $10 if you pick three, five. it goes on and on a, but that was like my introduction and i used to go to certain bars in the bronx and my dad was a construction worker and he actually built the world trade center and he was one of the head guys on the world trade center and used to take me out and i got that life in me. you know, that fast life, that he easy money life and that's what really was the down turn when you look back. >> and you started doing the lumber games and how did you graduate into something bigger than that. >> at 17 i went in the coast guard, united states coast guard and ended up getting hurt in the service and after i got hurt i got out and i got into the bad life again and connections from my older days in the mob if you want to call it and i was associated with the mob and
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ended up becoming the biggest jewel thief in the country. >> mike: did they recruit you. running numbers out here, maybe get him to do bigger things? >> no what actually happens when your he' making money for people, it's like any business if you're making money and kicking it up and up, you become respected. >> you stole jewelry and gave part of the proceeds to the-- >> yes, yes, i was part of that. that's why you were alive today. gave up part of the proceeds. >> that's why and i didn't tell. didn't tell on anybody and accepted responsible for anybody i did. and i robbed between 15 and 18 million in diamonds and spent 11 straight years behind bars. >> how much that have did you keep? >> well, about 30% is what you get on the dollar, and so if you looked at like-- >> like the government, man. >> got to give your tax. >> mike: the mob may be slightly worse or about the same as what the government. >> well, sometimes better. no, there's nothing good about
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it. when you looked back at your life and you know, what i did was wrong, totally wrong. >> no, i never hurt anybody in a robbery. i was good at what i did. i robbed between 15 and 18 or 20 stores is what the federal government had, i was facing life. i beat a life sentence and got my law degree in prison and i actually did, one the case, and i was very good at the law and i ended up doing four 12 year sentences run concurrently. >> this was no country club for you, right. >> no, i was in maximum security prisons. i was in prisons where i was telling the staff earlier where you have to, you lose all dignity. you lose all, there's no talk about handcuffs, you're stripped naked and searched and searched everywhere, and daily. i was strapped down naked, tortured and peed on by guards. >> mike: wow. >> and i wrote letters to senators, to the attorney general, i have stacks of letters, cases that i've done in
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the law because i was fighting abuses of people. what tommy was telling you, there is no medical care in prison. they will have no staff on. i had a man with no legs and they said he didn't belong and i was asking the administration why are you leaving him there? >> they let him not eat and didn't feed him and defecated on himself. no legs he was a veteran. mind you i always try to emphasize this. i put myself in prison and i don't blame anybody, but myself for that. and, but i still don't believe, you know, we're a redemptive society and we have to have compassion so we want to rebi rehabilitate and that's where i do what i do now. >> mike: and you've had a dramatic change, because if you did 11 years hard time you're one bad hombre and you've got the tattoos. >> everyone i go to sunday school with, they have the same
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type of tattoos. >> i show these hat a lot of functionsen do and the ink is actually melted chess pieces and the needle is a guitar string and i watched a man catch mrsa and die so i see kids today do a lot of things, that's cool. no, it's not cool. you want a tattoo get a tattoo on the street, you don't have to be a criminal to get a tattoo, but when i walk into a room and i show kids what happened to me from being abused and stuff and why it's not worth it and why you've got to go the next route. you've got to go the right route. we need family in our lives and we need a lot of things that we're not having today. >> mike: i want to find out how you came from this really pretty, pretty rough character to being a person who is out there now talking to schools and churches and all kinds of events and i bet you want to know, too, what happened to larry? well, you'll have to stick around and when you do you'll find out. that's what we're going to ask
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him when we come right back. - hi, i'm halle berry, and as a new mom, i can tell you that childhood is a magical time. but for children with diabetes, life is not quite so carefree. the barbara davis center for childhood diabetes is fighting hard to find a cure. know the signs: irritability, excessive urination, weight loss. if you have any of these signs, please call your doctor. early detection can save your life. give to save lives and reach for the cure. call now or log on to childrensdiabetesfoundation.org.
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>> mike: i knew you wouldn't go aw (applause) >> i knew you wanted to find out what happened to larry lawton, as did i. larry, you didn't stay in prison forever, 11 years you get out and when you got out, something changed in your life. what happened? >> well, the actual defining story is when i first got out, mike. a friend of mine comes to me and says, larry, i've got a favor. what do you want me to break somebody's legs. no, i caught my son smoking marijuana and he told me f-you, dad, where have you ever gone. will you talk to my son. i got my pictures together and did what i had to do and said, sure i'll talk to him and i
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developed a program after that. the saw the kid for two hours, the man comes back, whatever you do with the law or work with the kids and my life totally changed. what you did you got to him. why scare people, it's not scared straight. it's reality, but they hear it from someone who's been there like they won't listen to their teacher or counselor or moms and dads, but if they listen to somebody who's been through what i've been through they listen and we develop the program which is four parts and it's what prison is really like, and what you're going to lose and that's my wife, my kids, i had a 15 month old baby and it hurt. it hurt a lot. and when i got out of prison, thank god i have a relationship with my daughter. but you know, you lost all of those years, you know, at prison. you'd get pictures in and you'd he see your daughter growing up and it breaks your heart. >> mike: you started the program called reality check and now,
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it's used by police agencies and schools all over the country. in fact, good news is, we have a copy of your program and we're going to give it to every member of our studio audience here today. so all of you will get a copy of reality check. [applause] >> tommy, what is the program in a nutshell. what do you do with the program? >> the program, the-- we have a live program and the dvd. the dvd is 67 minute version and shows me in prison, actual pictures and broken down into four sections and the last section is so important because it's avoiding and dissolving bad associations and most kids and most people and adults, like you said, judges sentence kids to my program, they sentence adults to my program. judges, police officers use it and put it in the back of the car and they run against four kids and see them having trouble and they say, you need this. you did three things, you built good community relations with the community, you're trying to help the kid. you might save that kid from
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going to prison, and the cops have another tool to use instead of a gun. because all of our goal is to keep kids out of prison. i love what i do, i wouldn't change it for anything in the world. when you see a kid change, and in our records, we have a quantitative analysis done on my program. we have a 70% success rate in changing kids attitudes, 90% keeping them out of jail, 43% increased education and 31% increase in attendance. >> that's pretty remarkable. it's called reality check, larry lawton is our guest and he's a remarkable person who is showing that it can be done. i hope you've enjoyed tonight as program and i realize it's different and what some of you are going to say, i think if a person is in prison they ought to stay there. i know people feel that way. if it's your son or daughter you know what you want to see, a second chance and want someone to know you're not going to give up on other people and i know it's easy to give up on people,
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maybe somebody's given up on you. i hope that maybe one of the things our program has shown whether from maury davis or tommy chunk, larry lawton, people who made mistake, sometimes really, really bad ones and doesn't mean their life has to be hopeless and forever just marked off as completely unredeemable. that's one of the things that makes america a great country is that we typically don't give up on people, and we don't give up on our country. i hope you don't give up on the people around you, including members of your own family. and i hope you don't give up on this country. 'cause there's a lot of gloom and doom out there. i tend to believe that this country's been through a lot and it's a resilient one and we can still get through a lot of things in the future. i hope you've enjoyed the program. let us hear from you, mike huckabee.com, fox news feedback. until next week from new york city, this is mike huckabee, good night and god bless. osedc captioned by closed captioning services, inc.
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